Huatla de Jimenez Psilocybe caerulescens var. mazatecorum and Psilocybe zapotecorum

Discussion in 'ADVANCED MYCOLOGY' started by elfstone, Jan 20, 2013.

  1. Trout

    Trout Closet Mycologist, Literaly! Mushroom Doctor

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    My Garage
    I cased in the bag, folded the top over to let it run and planed to fold/cut bag and place in either a sg or larger fc/gh. The zap is still just in the bag not fanned, misted or anything. I will keep it in the bag at this point and see how it goes. I will open and mist as I see fit. I may move one to the gh as things go on just to see what happens. The pseudoaz is in a gh with edibles and I just rolled the bag down almost even with casing. And the caeru jars are in the same gh with lids off.
     
  2. Hacendado

    Hacendado Family member Mushroom Doctor Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,908
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    EUROPE
    I'll fruit them in a sgfc then... :shrug:

    It is really pain to drill all those holes...
     
  3. Trout

    Trout Closet Mycologist, Literaly! Mushroom Doctor

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    My Garage
    I can't really say from experience but I think a sgfc would be best for these but at this point I am doing other things.
     
  4. Trout

    Trout Closet Mycologist, Literaly! Mushroom Doctor

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    My Garage
    Both zap bags look about the same so I think I will move one to a sgfc and see how it does. Then we will know.

    Edit: FYI these are from a different source than the originals in this thread. I will start another thread for these when I get a chance.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
  5. Trout

    Trout Closet Mycologist, Literaly! Mushroom Doctor

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    My Garage
    I hope they are pins they have been just sitting there. I opened one bag and placed in a sgfc so hopefully they will like the better fae. I will snap a pic tomorrow I was going to let things ride till I had more developments and start a thread.
     
  6. elfstone

    elfstone Initiate Mushroom Doctor Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    292
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Orion
    Well, it has been almost 5 weeks and, so far, no action. The mycelium of the caeurelescens and zapotecorum have fully colonized the casing. The cultures look healthy and there's no signs of any contamination. I am beginning to wonder if the 50/50 and calci-sand mix is just not going to do it. Everyone who has had success with these species seems to have good luck using a cactus mix as their base. I am going to have to run a trial with that casing to see if it is the casing mix or just that I don't have a fruiting strain here. In contrast, the Huatla mexicana is MUCH easier and more adaptable. So far, the latter remains my favored species.

    Elfstone
     
  7. wallofsounds

    wallofsounds Mycologist

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Germany
    Well, I have encountered a similar phenomenon. Five bags of zapotecorum have been sitting in my fruiting chamber since the beginning of december 2012 (substrate is straw/horse manure/vermiculite/conifer wood shavings, gypsum). The zapos colonized the casing layer very aggressively - "ate it up" so to speak - so that I had to add more casing material (pot flower soil + cactus mix). I had tons of primordia (thick tiny knots) of which only two developed into pins. No sign of contamination but I guess that my cultures are simply too dry. I will wait a while and then mist them heavily. RH is about 92% in my FC but I haven't paid much attention to the cultures in the past couple of days....
    I noticed that the cactus soil tends to dry out very quickly...
    I keep my fingers crossed for your cultures, elfstone :)
     
  8. Professor PinHead

    Professor PinHead Lost in the Tek.... Administrator Mushroom Doctor Cannabis Doctor Supporter

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    9,167
    Location:
    A Rhizomorphic Space
    What did you use as a substrate?

    You guys should read the following pages from Dr. Pollock's book I attached. You will gain insight on substrates for these exotic species.

    Start at 'cultivation from compost'

    The caeru is a tricky little fucker. He sure likes corn debris compost, :)

    These mexican species are pretty tough suckers, you don't need sterilized water as long as your spawn was clean and your substrate was pasteurized/sterilized properly.

    You can go to the measure if you would like but it is not necessary. I don't even use distilled and have no problems with them.


    compost 1.jpg compost2.jpg compost 3.jpg


    About the casing layer read the following paper.

    These mexicans like sand in their casings. In some cases people use straight sand and have no problems,

    https://myco-tek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=37416&d=1360958179
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
  9. wallofsounds

    wallofsounds Mycologist

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Germany
    Thanks a lot for the info professor!

    Corn debris compost sounds interesting but I wouldn't know where to get it in Germany. I will give it a shot with bark mulch compost in the next round.

    From what I have understood, it is especially important for Zapotecorum to retain the right moisture level.
    Is dunking a good idea if the substrate appears too dry or would you rather increase misting...?

    As for the casing layer , I could "shake off" the old casing soil and apply a new casing layer which includes more sand in the mix.
    Does one have to use any particular kind of sand?

    Thanks for the help!

    wos
     
  10. Professor PinHead

    Professor PinHead Lost in the Tek.... Administrator Mushroom Doctor Cannabis Doctor Supporter

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    9,167
    Location:
    A Rhizomorphic Space
    How much is in it? I'm sure it will be fine. It can't have that much dolomite in it.
     
  11. Professor PinHead

    Professor PinHead Lost in the Tek.... Administrator Mushroom Doctor Cannabis Doctor Supporter

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    9,167
    Location:
    A Rhizomorphic Space
    Sand form local river beds works well. Zapos are pretty tolerant of moisture. There is a line in the post I made up thread where Pollock mentions Zapos fruiting through straight sand submerged in water.

    I would say at this point dunking them couldn't hurt if they aren't fruiting already.

    compost2-1.jpg

    Don't sweat it dude! :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
  12. Professor PinHead

    Professor PinHead Lost in the Tek.... Administrator Mushroom Doctor Cannabis Doctor Supporter

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    9,167
    Location:
    A Rhizomorphic Space
    Don't put too much. You don't want to sand content to be so high that it causes the casing to be compact. There is already a decent amount of sand in the cactus soil. :)
     
  13. Professor PinHead

    Professor PinHead Lost in the Tek.... Administrator Mushroom Doctor Cannabis Doctor Supporter

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    9,167
    Location:
    A Rhizomorphic Space
    I don't add anywhere near that much. I add 5% tops. There is already sand in the cactus soil so if you add too much it makes it a lot less drainable.
     
  14. Professor PinHead

    Professor PinHead Lost in the Tek.... Administrator Mushroom Doctor Cannabis Doctor Supporter

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    9,167
    Location:
    A Rhizomorphic Space
    It isn't ph you have to worry about. It is the casing layer becoming compact that you have to be careful of....
     
  15. Professor PinHead

    Professor PinHead Lost in the Tek.... Administrator Mushroom Doctor Cannabis Doctor Supporter

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    9,167
    Location:
    A Rhizomorphic Space
    I'd recommend the following recipe. Ive been experimenting with it and had a lot of success.

    It is basically the captains casing recipe with 1/4 cup fine verm added and cacti soil instead of potting soil.

    2 cups cactus soil
    2 cups coir
    1/4 cup fine verm
     
  16. Professor PinHead

    Professor PinHead Lost in the Tek.... Administrator Mushroom Doctor Cannabis Doctor Supporter

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    9,167
    Location:
    A Rhizomorphic Space
    There is nothing wrong with [STRIKE]perlite[/STRIKE] vermiculite bro.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  17. Hacendado

    Hacendado Family member Mushroom Doctor Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,908
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    EUROPE
    Thanks!
    My zapo block is going along nicely.

    This will be the casing.
     
  18. Larynx

    Larynx Well-Known Member Mushroom Doctor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    2,025
    Location:
    Southeastern US
    Dude, I promise there is nothing wrong with verm. It helps, along with the coir, to hold in extra moisture. Zapos especially like extra moisture. I wouldn't recommend a straight verm casing, but it does help to have a little in there. There are a million different reasons why other, less experienced, cultivators would have issues. The casing could be too thick. It could also have been too thin which would allow the mycellium to fully colonize it and cause overlay. The casing could have accidentally dried out once or twice. The most common mistake would be to let that type of casing compact too much, which has a tendency to happen after over misting/watering. It's all too easy to just blame the verm, and not take responsibility to for making a mistake in cultivating a rare, exotic species that little is known about. If they were easy, everyone would be growing them, and we'd all have a list of research papers on em.

    My point, trust Pin's expertise. He has never steered me wrong, or anyone else that I have talked too.
     
  19. Professor PinHead

    Professor PinHead Lost in the Tek.... Administrator Mushroom Doctor Cannabis Doctor Supporter

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    9,167
    Location:
    A Rhizomorphic Space
    Both of these casing mixes have fine verm in them...... I'm not going to mention the species but it is in the section cordisporae,

    Left contains - sand, coir, cacti soil, fine verm,

    right contains - no sand; only coir, potting soil (organic seed starter), and fine verm.

    Either are very suitable but the left one is more prone to compacting if you are too heavy with the mist bottle.

    sand.jpg semper fi.jpg
     
  20. Professor PinHead

    Professor PinHead Lost in the Tek.... Administrator Mushroom Doctor Cannabis Doctor Supporter

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    9,167
    Location:
    A Rhizomorphic Space
    Too much peat will change the pH and can result in a contaminated casing layer if you are running a slow grower in it.

    You may want to add some crushed or hydrated lime accordingly if you are adding 10% peat.

    Keep in mind these things sit in the fruiting chamber a long time.

    Personally I would't use sand without at least a little verm. It helps keep the moisture distributed evenly.

    Let me know how it works out without it. I'm rather curious. :popcorn: