Missing Link and Hell Breath Log

Discussion in 'Cannabis Grow Logs' started by Michael Townshend, Feb 5, 2017.

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Do you prefer orgaically grown or hydro grown for personal use?

  1. Organic

    16 vote(s)
    88.9%
  2. Hydro

    2 vote(s)
    11.1%
  1. Michael Townshend

    Michael Townshend Member

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    I started a pack of Missing link, 6 Hell Breath, 2 Joystick (Bodhi) and 2 Qleaner a while back and have been keeping up with pics regularly and when important. The difference between this and most grow logs is that I am looking for any advice I can that might help wit what I am doing currently. Started growing over 25 years ago, but only 2 years ago did I pick it back up as my kids are now on the way to college...

    I'm not in the same house, so I don't have a ton of space, but enough. I've been growing cheaper single seeds from the usual outlets and for a number of years have been collecting genetics, so I have more elite strains that I've been waiting to get this set up dialed in b4 I start popping them. Still, there's room for improvement and I know that some of you will see that, any advice would be great.

    I'll layout the set-up (today, cause it's constantly changing).

    Grow Areas:
    I use tents for all stages, so here is a list of them and how I use them currently:

    1. 2 room propagation tent that I use for seed starting, cloning machine and I keep an ebb and flow system on the other side to maintain mothers, stock i'm not currently growing and want to just maintain, stuff that may need attention, etc... So, from seed or clone to xplant into containers. I grow organically, this may be the most inorganic of the tents, lol. Considering the stuff that happens in there and what it takes to achieve that, particularly in cloning.

    2. 4x4 Grow tent. with a 4 foot x 8 bulb T5 (every CFL I have is T5) fixture. Environmental parameters are adjustable to whatever the conditions, usually opening it up is plenty, but all the fans needed to run a 1000W MH is in place. They all sit in a 3x3 (damn are they expensive, but with the lip it takes up all but 6" per side) tray and I water drain to waste style (will get to that later)

    3. 5x5 Flowering tent. This one has all the best gear and most control over all aspects of environment with CO2 injection and master controller. All Variables are sent to my PC and logged, which helps find troublesome spots/times. Being an engineer, I love having all that data to look thru.

    4. 2x2 tent for males and any other needs that may require isolation. there's a small light in there. I can't take a plant upstairs, they could smell too much, I try to keep it all in the basement and this allows me to as long as I am mindful of the pollen in the tent when there are males in them. I hope to finally be able to collect and be able to store pollen. Something I been wanting to do for years, but never had the space. So, I'll probably have a bit of stupidity going on there, lol.

    All but the Veg tent are brand new, just got them this week, still getting all the gear into them. The veg tent has cheap zippers, light will leak into it at night, so you can see, it's a hand me down from what I used to flower in. But the only one that's not new. No bug except some fungus gnats I expect to have the second treatment done in a few days. Need to slow down on watering. I've got gnat nix to use, should resolve it's self as the gnats came when the veg plants were draining to trays and staying wet too long, this is not happening anywhere anymore. So the nematodes i'm using should do the trick. I've got another box if they come up again or I don't clear them this time. They don't seem to be an issue, only in half the pot prolly when I started treating them all.

    I am in the Buffalo, NY area, so winters are brutal, being in the basement is what seems to make the tents the best option to maintain the environment that is best (I'm used to being in a big room with a few lights flowering, but things need to be scaled back here). Summers are great, there is a hot period, but very short. I have an AC hooked up for when it's needed. Temps above 85 kick it in. Otherwise everything is cooled with outside air I have some filter on.

    Next post I'll detail the feeding program
     
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  2. Michael Townshend

    Michael Townshend Member

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    Feeding Program:

    Since I had been out of the growing scene basically since Kush started (never grew any, never had heard of it til a few months after I stopped), so mid 90's, the nutrient issue is a real one, with so many brands, so many claims and so expensive.

    So, in the past 2 years I have been using a brand per harvest and trying to get an idea of what works best and is the best quality. I've come to the descision that for flowering, the only liquid nutes I give them will be amendments, stimilants, carbs, etc... no actual nutes other that boosters when needed.

    I've moved to watering with tea 100% except in my hydro and seed/clone propagation areas.

    This was a long time coming, but one anecdote I can give would be the first time I brewed tea, was mostly insect frass but a light general purpose tea. I foliar fed it to the veg plants and 20 mins later they were all pointing vertically towards the light. That kind of response is what I have been looking for and the teas take care of all my needs in the dirt as well. So no expensive liquid benes are needed. I use 3 brands of premixed blend, but have everything to brew my own, in fact I add quite a bit to the mix depending on the need. Teas are very versatile and you can brew grow and veg teas, but also general purpose teas and tailor the mix to the plant that is being fed. In my head I have 4 mixes I use in flower, 2 in veg so far (based on their life stage and proximity to flowering). These teas tend to be strong, over 2000 PPM, so I dilute and add amendments, check PPM, keeping track of how the plants are responding as i try to dial in a what works best for most of them and go with that. So, work in progress that if any of you have experience with teas, your advice on what I am doing would be invaluable. The setup cost the most, after than it's just maintaining the mixes which are about 10 bucks a day to water everything (say 40 plants) plus amendments, which can be expensive, I've been through a lot and seems that those with the highest concentration are the best. Requiring .5 ml per 5g on some. I'll list all those amendments once I can make that list by hand and get it transferred. Basically it's all AN, Humboldt's Own gravity system (a number of bottles there), atmi and one from Aptus (facilitator) and Nectar for the gods, some amendments are from other sources, but they were all chosen after comparing with their competitors, I've read all you can on the intrnet and grilled the manufacturers and the system I'm using seems to have the best quality, which is important to me and it actually saves money considering the low dilution rates, a quart will last 2-3 seasons for most amendments.

    Soil:
    25% ProMix with
    25% Recycled soil (I use it all over and over, but test it every crop to be sure there's no toxicity built up. I get my depletion ratios from an agricultural site and with some adjustments, it's been holding up the last 5 crops without any issues I know of.
    10% Pearlite
    15% Vermi (just based off observations, seems a little more that pearlite is better )
    20% Castings, hummus, etc...

    I have a nute mix I've been working on for years with over a dozen Down To Earth dry nutes and amendments that I keep premixed and add 5 cups per batch, that's something that I monitor and use more or less depending on the results (usually 4.5 to 5.5 cups). This provides all the nutes that the plants will need throughout their time in soil. top dressing with either the base, a veg or bloom leaning batch is done every week. 1/2tsp per gallon. The usage was maintained so that the mix is used at the same rate that down to earh recommends on their box, you can just add 20 boxes at one time with the mix and any special amendments I may add. This is not something that a new grower should try, you can loose your whole crop and a lot of work. I was tought how to make these mixes 25 years ago and am just starting off mild and working up. I've found the max now I'm trying to get it right like baby bear would want it, lol. I've found it hard to keep the P down no matter what you use, so I am always on the look out for whatever doesn't have that in it til they are in flower.

    The money that I have wasted on liquid nutes is amazing, but I am glad to have some system down where the plants are getting great nutrition, stims when needed and as plants ripen they have been on this new diet longer and longer. The nugs are harder every harvest. I've had to change the way I trim due to this. You can't get to the big leaves inside the tops, so there's a lot more just hair trimming going on. I believe that to be a good sign as long as those that come out keep getting better.

    This garden has been perpetual for the past 9 months and has enough ready to maintain that for prolly another year if you consider the clones, but 6 month is my target. That way any problems that take every plant in veg wouln't put me behind.

    That's what makes this the most difficult. I am used to keeping strains at 4 stages of growth so I get a plant a week, but knowing what week everything is at and making sure that they get one of the 4 mixes I use is tough, not something you want to do if starting off. Adding to that is the cloning of the new strains as I find males and females. Labeling and making sure that I've got viable cuttings of everthing is not an east task. I hate writing things down, but you really need to if not to just get things into perspective in your head. To me, it's easy, I can look at a plant and I know exactly which one it is and what week it's at, so it's ok, but there is a definite advantage to having compete grow cycles, would be my method, but nothing grows that uniform and no matter what you do you always have plants that are staggered in flower, from my limited experience.

    Note: I am an engineer by trade, so I tend to get a bit technical, please let me know if I am making things too complicated or if it may be appropriate. I can say that there is not one ingredient I use that I haven't researched its utility when growing NJ, if the research doesn't add up, the product is shelved or if it turns out to do the same as something else I am using.

    Question if anyone knows: Regarding the use of teas and the benes that they provide; I read somewhere that you can kill them all easy by using specific items that are on my shelf. I use RO water to a 50 tank where it sits, I bubble that an hour to be sure no chlorine is in there, but I was curious if there were any nutes that I should stay away from now that I am using these teas and relying on the action in the soil to provide some of the vigor that you need, maybe chemical hydro nutes? They wouldn't get mixed in soil, but knowing is important to me.

    Pictures, I've sure that you all want to see some pics, so I'll get them in the next posts try to provide the week. Nothing is fully in flower yet, but I have 5 of the elites above in flower and they are all females (3 ML and 2 HB) I want to get the Hells Breath in asap due to their stretch, I have limits and I really do not want to start using bush doctor. I have plenty of low stress training methods I can use to avoid that. Never needed it before (til I heard of it, then I all the sudden want to see how it works, lol, that's their game).

    Ok, Pics next.
     
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  3. PE-n-hed

    PE-n-hed Well-Known Member Moderator Mushroom Doctor Cannabis Doctor Supporter

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    Sounds like a nice set up !!
    Do you flower clones exclusive or seed plants ? And which do you find the best yield per m2 ?
    I'm all organic cultivator and have been on break / MIA awhile , but about to test run a few from PP 's line up for a patient with some med needs.
    Glad you are bringing your grow here, I'll be following along
     
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  4. Michael Townshend

    Michael Townshend Member

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    So this project started on or around Dec. 15th, that's the date I will be referring to if needed.

    Missing Link. All 11 Sprouted, 1 died soon after, was my fault, stem rot...
    [​IMG]

    There's 3 that are growing slow and mutant like, here are the slowest 2:
    ML2.stocky.jpg ML5.stocky2.jpg

    The one on the right is the worst, but odd, I never topped it, none had any stress issues, but this one on the right has 3 tops at the end of every branch. There's 7-8 definate tiers in there, there's a lot going on with these, trimming the excess off seemed to help, they sped up a bit, but are not gonna be keepers unless there's something magical about them. Definitely will flower them once they are taller. Too dense IMO to flower yet and I have tall ones I need to get in there as soon as I pull one I replace it. This week I've added 1 a day, nothing is too tall and there's plenty of room for stretch, so thankfully I dodged a bullet there hopefully. Just want the genetics I've been growing to finish so I can get these in there. All the ML and HM grow faster than the Joystick and Qleaner, that's for sure. They have medium growth rates compared to the Mycotek strains.

    This is 2/3 of them at xplant. The pot with the yellow string hanging off it is a .7g pot, the rest are 1, 2 gallon. I put a couple in 3 gallon, but after some info from Prof. Pinhead I am flowering these all out in 1g pots except what I've potted otherwise.

    IMG_1269.JPG

    I will upload some more pics I've taken since then. These were already being hosted, so I figured I would start there. Tonight I will be

    There are about 8 plants that need to go into flower to sex. Along the way I was given some pineapple strain and an AK strain of some kind, so I will need to slip them in if possible or I may hold them up for next round if possible. This new 5x5 tent with the extra foot has given me the room to fit most of the Mycotek plants in there, once I get it outfitted tomorrow I will have everything out and much easier to take better pics of. So tomorrow I hope to have current pics uploaded. This is a 10+ weeks strain, so I been waiting a bit to avoid a lot of lag. The furthest along ML plant has a few weeks in flower under it's belt. Looking forward to getting it out and taking a look at it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
  5. Michael Townshend

    Michael Townshend Member

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    Thanks PE, regarding the question about seed.

    it's always nice/preferable to start from seed vs bringing in clones from outside, I found that it's risky as far as contamination, but if you know the grower and are fine, that's always an option.

    Growing from seed will take me about a year b4 I have the pheno picked and ample clones and plenty ready to flower in veg.

    Once I have found the pheno's I want to keep and collect pollen, I am hoping to have this pack narrowed down to 1-2 and will keep a mother that I clone from. That's the goal. Once I can pump out clones of the selected pheno's I'm only limited by space.

    That's not to say that I only do one strain at a time. To keep from getting tired of a strain, I typically plant a strain every few months and retire one. Maintaining 4-6 at a time. However, if your new to growing, only start with one strain, there's too many variables, you will get a better yield until you have all the phases and their specific needs down. The single genetics I plant for variety will get selected as I go thru the pack, but not as well as growing the whole thing at once. So, I pick certain strains that I am not really concerned with pheno hunting, just some variety and knowledge of the strains ability to help medically with my issues. AS lot of times I use those slots to plant single fem seeds that I want to try out to see if I should look into it further, but I never rely on any of the single seed fem. sites for my main smoke, that's all for play and testing to save a little money.

    Once you have a cutting or if you start from cuttings that time is cut into 1/3 to 1/2 depending what you get. Using a 50 space TurboKlone Machine that can keep clones for months, so I have the same strategy with that, stagger clones....

    I know nobody here that grows, only recently sold some for the first time (but he took everything I had to extra, lol), so my network has been limited to the stains I can find in seed form on the internet. Spent a ton at SHN, Neptune, Sourpatch, etc... Seems that the breeders stock the sites with different strains, so you have to shop on multiple sites except mycotek who drops everything at SHN. Seeds.... I've passed the storage limit I have of 400 strains, can say from my limited experience in the past 2 years (before I had to fly to amsterdam to get new genetics, so I've had to learn a lot about all the various seed banks and what to expect from each) that you will get more bang for your buck buying a pack of seeds from one of these elite breeders from above, usually from the US too, seems we have some of the best breeders right here now. They are doing some great stuff in europe, but they are not as prolific as the breeders here.

    Sorry I can't answer that directly, but the short answer would be, how much time do you want to wait til your at 100%? Seeds will take the longest, but provide the best selection. Clones would have been preselected, so you want to know what your getting and what it looks like at flower, make sure it's got tight buds, tastes good and ample frosting, tho the frost does not always indicate potency, it's a sure fire way to know it is and provide the best bag appeal.

    Seems my issues with getting rid of my herb is two fold, I only know 1 person and they are not enough to start a network (I have been sick for years since an accident, I am just now starting to be productive the past couple years). I expect/hope that that will come with time. Problem is being so close to Canada, I think the people here got flooded with BC bud when that was going on. Since then, big growers have been selling 200-250 dollar zips. The kids here only think it's good based on how much it sedates you. I grow primarily for medical purposes, so I don't use that stuff. Sativa hybrids are something only older heads seem to appreciate and I don't have to constantly turn people down who want me to sell for 200 bucks, which is insane, I used to get 400 from friends, no questions b4 I stopped, 5gs an elbow regardless of what it was, now that's not possible, So along with all this I have the stress of trying to discreetly as possible try to find a network or outlet. Tho I have spent thousands, my goal is to feel better and I'm doing that. Getting 20% returns on BHO, so what I'm growing must be good, that's not even from elite genetics like these. No way I will sell a zip for $200, a lot of times I think it's just them trying to get the cheapest price, but it's an insult as a grower cause you know what they are comparing prices of a 7 week kush pulled at 6 and pollen stipped (takes a lot to get a buzz myself). Only the brown trichs are left, lol. I always tell them to try to learn a little bit about what they are smoking currently, get a look at the trichs and see if they are damaged, as they were, clearly and then ask me whatever questions they need. Having as many strains as I do, there's gotta be 10k strains out there, all different. So, I need to educate some people or get lucky and find someone that is already. The money would be great, but again, this is all about me and getting some medical issues resolved without the damage from big pharma.

    I certainly do not want to rip people off, but I have limits and if I can't stick with them then I've compromised quite a bit to loose money. I'd love to be able to sell that cheap, but until I have more lights, not possible. Too much money already laid out. Used to be that you could recover your equipment from one harvest. Now it's a long process that you never know if your ahead or behind. Being 48, I just need to get more in touch with some people around me that are probably really frustrated, as I was, that there is nothing medicinal around, unless you make BHO out if it. Just curious, I had my cousin send some do si doh and sherbert here, they were expensive and you can tell that they are no where near as well cared for as what we grow. More trying to just get it out the door with a min. amount of time and effort.

    Having 10 or 15 years without anything growing a lot has changed. Quite amazing that in 15 years equipment is about the same price, but better tech and the prices are cheaper. Seems to oppose the way an economy is supposed to work and considering we are so far from a legal state, colorado has clearly made and impact nationwide. With CA now in the game, I suspect that we will all feel a pinch in my situation. I am sure that had I continued to grow I wouldn't have this issue, but I did and for all the right reasons, don't regret that one bit. Just a lot to learn, this is a full time job for me to provide the meds I need. Not into this to make a killing, but there is always extra and it's a shame that I have such a hard time getting rid of it considering that this missing link is not around within 500+ miles or the hells breath, most everything I grow is prolly the first time this area has seen it. I know a grower, but I don't hang with him, he's all about money, quality is an afterthought and he won't buy any of mine. In the 15 years he's been growing, the genetics I gave him are the only other strain he's grown and has no interest in improving on that 15 y/o technique, so it's not worth my time to spend with him. Not a greedy person, detest those that take advantage of others.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
  6. Michael Townshend

    Michael Townshend Member

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    Since my last post I spread out a bit, threw some more Missing Link and Hell Breath into flower as they got enough strong sides to take clones. So far, out of 6 known Missing Link, all are female. There are 2 left to flower that need some side branches, so I topped them quite a bit to force the lower branches to take over so I can at least get clones. The 2 plants left are of a pheno that can grow fast upwards, with one cola. There are sides showing, but they aren't more than a couple inches. That pheno is interesting when it's been topped as I did that earlier to another and it looks like the best one so far in flower. Has great structure and appears strong enough to handle any load that it may get. Again, this pheno has to be topped early or main lined. There are a number of phenos in this bunch. I have been able to identify 4 distinct phenos. Once they all get flowering, I am sure that that may change.

    Missing Link Pheno's - Known from 10 plants:
    1. Grows moderate to fast, little to no side branching, stretch is about 1.5 times to date, expect that to change. 2 of 3 are flowering and all are females.
    2. Grows moderately fast, has 2-3 main levels of branches that take over the canopy. Will be the best option for main lining and seeking a keeper pheno. All these are flowering and all were females. There's 4 of these, I expect them to divide up as they mature a few more weeks. Stretch is slightly less that pheno #1, again this will change as they mature and fully stretch.
    3. Grows Slow, tops it's self. All the tops have had 3 colas since they initially grew. There were branches that split into 2 with no node. I cut them off or the weakest one. Will take the seed mother another month before she is ready to flower, at least tall enough that I can prop it up some toward the light at least to get a sex. Due to the space requirements, I should know if any or both are males and can toss. There is one of the 3 #3 pheno's that's fastest growing, hopefully that turns out female and the slow ones male so I can toss.
    Most think that I should toss these anyway as they are mutants and slow growers, 2 bad dom tendencies that will never make for a good parent. I just have some reservations about these seeds. I am hoping that at least one gets a super charge from some AACT tea and takes off fast. Cause if I can properly prune them to keep larf away, there should be some nice yield from at least one the others could be put on shelves away from the rest, but getting full light, could be interesting, but not repeatable unless I got another pack from them and got these pheno's. To take it in and prune/shape it to full height, this is a perfect specimen if that's what you like to do and I have grown other strains that are as slow to grow if now slower and have fantastic reps. (and effect) So, these could turn out one nice if some time and patience is put into it. Def have the space and plenty of light for them, just need the patience.
    That accounts for 9 I think, I haven't figured out where to put one pheno, it's between #1 and #2, probably closer to #1, but slowest to grow, will know more when I see it's stretch.
    Stretch for both strains if reported low because none of them have been in flower a full month yet. So I expect the stretch to be closer to what the prof has stated in previous posts, which is some, but not nearly as much as the Hell Breath. Both seem to be manageable and no worries about tying off any out of control branches yet, lol. They have a lot of room to fill in.

    Hell Breath Pheno's - Known from 6 Plants:
    1. Fast Growing, single cola. Insignificant side branching, but enough for cloning. As fast as they grow, a lot of them fail because they have never matured sufficiently to start rooting. I could get them to root in more ideal conditions, more on that below. I have 1 male of this pheno. It's been isolated and kept under 12/12. I'll just try to collect pollen and chuck it if it works out.
    2. Moderate to fast growing, self tops once 18" from light. Seemed that one pheno I had was growing like pheno 1, but as it got closer to the light, it started to top itself. Has 3 colas on main shoot and 2 from the next tier that have topped to 3 colas. All the side branches that matured had multiple tops as well. Plenty of material to clone.
    Once flowering is induced, I noticed a lot of flower sites showing from bottom of intermediate to the main tier and up to the colas. I plan to focus on those phenos a bit more as they mature. I'll try to find a spacing once they have all been defined well on each pheno/plant (some other phenos show the same flower structure. I will take pics of that during my next clean up, try to get a count as all HB has been put into flower to date.)

    The Hell Breath seem to be a bit more uniform, although I only planted 6 seeds, there is a good approximation of what to expect. Seems to be 2 or 3 phenos of the Hell Breath from my pack, will know a lot more as they flower and take on that structure I spoke of.

    I have been using organic and hormonal stims via foliar spray for a few weeks (otherwise organic everywhere else), but not like the Hell Breath once in flower, a week after I have stopped the stims altogether. Seems that the more they stretch the better. Gonna have golf balls on it, you would never think that they would stretch that much judging by the leaf size, the water leaves are the size of my hand. Same with the Missing Link, the shade from the leaves has to be considered before you close the door every time. All in all, the move to a 5 x 5 tent was great for the plants in flower. They have plenty of room to stretch and finally a big enough room to take advantage of the new bulb and the 1150W setting.

    The plants in veg went into the 4 x 4 and are now enclosed as opposed to in the open for the most part. The light is a T5, but 8 bulbs and seems to keep the plants growing with the internode spacing I would expect, but a bit slower, which is good right now. I have some Qleaner(seeds), Joystick(seeds), Pineapple Express(clone) and AK49(clone) that I am trying to get to grow as fast as possible too, on top of that there are some of each of the 4 strains I was growing before the Missing Link was started. Seems I only overshot by one plant per strain. So I have pruned them way back or flowered those that were ready.


    Lately the problem has been with the clones. Specifically getting the clones to sprout roots, usually they sprout in 4-7 days when the machine is working. I can see nubs pop up where usually you see roots the next 24hrs, but nothing lately. I will post my experience in the next post, may be helpful to anyone who's having problems cloning...

    With regards to the Missing Link in flower. I will have photos of them within a week. There should be enough in bloom to see all the variety. Once they get to the 6 week mark, I will post pics as I take them daily usually. If I can figure out how to get the macro videos uploaded i will do that as well. Usually that's the best way to see the plant at 80% done or more. At least I can upload the pics.
     
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  7. Raskal

    Raskal Active Member

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    Nice work so far !! Very excited to see the pics since missing link will be my next grow ...
     
  8. Michael Townshend

    Michael Townshend Member

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    Thanks Prof. I'll say that the Hell Breath seems to be growing more uniform that the missing link. They seem to grow fast and the stretch is very useful if you know it's coming.

    There are at least 4-5 of the missing link that I would term slow growing. Now, I like that, it gives me time to prune and top for the shape that I prefer to deal with, but I guess a lot are looking for speed, which some phenos provide, seems there's a growth speed for every pheno. I know that 2-3 went into flower fast, a couple weeks if vegatative, were smaller, but those stetch the most, so filled in the space nicely. I put all the hell breath in flower before anymore Missing Link and the HB seeds were started a week behind the ML.

    I think I have the issues with my cloner squared away. I have complete control over the tank temp and air temp and humidity with 1 thermostat and a humidistat and thermostat combo from inkbird (they make a thermostat for every situation, I have 5 now, all serve a specific purpose). The water is staying around 68 (morning) to 75F, which I have read are a good temp to avoid the slime which proliferates once you get in the 80's, which the tank did at times before I put the water pump on a cycle timer (since removed due to the direct cold air I am feeding it now). Only 24 hours of these temps and I can see the roots starting to come on some clones that have been waiting for a couple three weeks to root, but stayed healthy. Using chloramine is the way to go I think and I am darn glad I found the info that I did, I really learned a lot about cloning during my research that I had never thought of. I guess that's the benefit of trying to figure out a solution thru research vs just using someone else's approach you can learn why one works better over another and why specifically. Looks like I will be taking a clone or 2 from some plants in flower, will set them back a few months (that has been a way to put a strain on ice for a certain time, rooting when in flower. The time it takes to reveg, is about right for the time b4 I might want to see that strain again or I flower that out and take another cutting when in flower. Coming out of flower creates a mess, there are branches everywhere, but in my experience, the trimming required to clean the main stem up, makes the branches very tough due to the scarring from so many cuts and provides the opportunity to prune in any manner you want from the start, which saves a few months it's self. The clones from these branches seems to live forever in the clone machine with or without roots or if flowered, can carry an immense weight. Anyway, I think I have removed the slime that was causing the problems along with temp issue and I am hoping to start to see roots anyday.
     
  9. Michael Townshend

    Michael Townshend Member

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    I just took a break, trying to get those in flower sorted so that I can take one pic or 2. Would anyone want to see the male Hell Breath (prolly 2 weeks in flower now, I will get the date) that's in flower? Or wait til it's got frosty balls all over ready too burst? It's been under a LED for the past week, I freed up a T5 of good size to put over it instead. Those LED lights scare me, I always worry that I've got them too close and I haven't found a reliable method of telling. With a HID, at least you can do the hand test if your pressed for height and the temp is a dead give away, lol. I keep this one around cause it's come in handy a few times like here. But they could have gone without light those few days, let in some indirect light during the day...

    My goal is to try to get some pollen from the HB and start pollinating selectively, then kill it. Considering those that could turn male, this is the fastest, smelliest, sugary one I could get from this half of the pack, so I will prolly revert it and clone. I've noticed that if you clone a male, the pollen will continue for weeks on end. It's the lag while going to veg that keeps it putting out pollen. I've gotton so many seeds from being around that male clone and touching the lower part of a flowering bud, get one seed, sux. Usually you can see it and I bet that with the structure of the flower I've seen in pics, this willl
     
  10. Michael Townshend

    Michael Townshend Member

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    Ok, with the clones, this is what happened and its something that a lot of people seem to have happen, so this may be as helpful of a post as any as I have researched this thing to death and have been giving it time to adjust to each change, taking notes, all that, but once I started following a head in another community forum, he had the same issue for same time in same type of cloner and use a very interesting liquid to keep the slime away, that is chloramine, something that since I started growing organic, is my enemy, even in that form (notice chloramine vs chlorine), which is essentially the same for all intents and purposes, it's a great killer of all pathogens and helps sterilize the guts when cleaning.

    Turns out that this chloramine and chlorine, which will dissipate in the air in 24hours, is what the clones need at this stage. It's essentially a cloning solution and bacteria cleaner all in one. Seems that this is not a secret, that it's the active ingredient in the ez cloner, Clear Rez it's called. Available anywhere, once you are used to that and know how it works with the plant biology there are some pool shock substitutes that you can make the exact same product as Clearez, but for pennies on the dollar. The Pool shock comes in a fine granular form and makes hundreds of gallons of concentrate that can be stored for a while, 6 months or more, and used instead of the clea rez, but apparently using chloramine is the secret to keeping these clone machines clean and in top shape while cloning. I got a quart of the clearez and plan to use the pool shock after I have used that up, just refill the bottles with my own. The pool shock is only $10 total at Amazon, here's the link https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004DEOPFU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Here's the link to Clearez at Amazon:
    https://www.amazon.com/EZ-CLONE-Cle...UTF8&qid=1487742510&sr=8-1&keywords=clear+rez

    I found some good info here about cloning and machines with problems:
    https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/anyone-using-turbo-klone.12621/

    That post has the info on the clear rez and pool shock. To make a concentrate of clear rez using the pool shock above ireading the above thread will explain what is in this shock that makes it the best choice...

    Green ThumbBill posted:
    ..."Get a 1lb bag of 65% chlorine pool shock from your local pool supply company (link above). Mix the pool shock at a rate of 1 gram to 1 gal RO or tap water. This will make your concentration. Use 1 oz/15ml of your concentrate per 5 gallons of plain water in your reservoir. If you do this, I'll bet it dramatically increases your cloning success. Be sure you buy the pool shock that is 100% calcium hypochlorite (65% available chlorine) granular and not the non chlorine pool shock stuff. Good luck!..."

    I'll be moving to this after I finish my first bottle to see how it works, if it's better, I'll keep using it, if now, I have another bottle of clear rez to use til I get more, but mixing your own makes this cost pretty much nothing as opposed to 20 bucks a bottle.

    So, that is how I was able to get the machine cleaned up, refilled (using UC Roots as a solution, Clonex when that runs out).

    Having resolved the immediate problem, the slime, I needed to address the cause, water temp. So I tried a lot of methods. The 2 that worked best was
    1. Putting the cloner on a cycle timer. The on/off time has to be tweaked for a while before you want to let it go. I settled on 12min on, 3 min off. Any more off time and the clones after 12 hrs will start to wilt. Any more doesn't seem to help. This lowered the temp about 6 degrees, which may be enough for most. The cycle timer you can use is a cheap, digital multifunction timer from Amazon. It has all sorts of modes, seems geared towards making lights go on and off randomly and frequently on/off. Priced at 14 bucks it's all you need, the cycle timers are otherwise 80 bucks. I don't even use one for my CO2. I have 2 timers with a clock and 12 programs a day. I have them programed to turn on co2 and off the exhaust a min. apart. Due to the fact that they are run off a clock and they stay programmed during a power outage due to a rechargeable battery once you have them set, it's just a matter of checking that the time hasn't shifted and they both work like a much more expensive controller.

    2. Blowing cold air directly on the reservoir. I put a splitter on a fresh air intake near the cloner and reduced it to a few inches and fed it into the bottom of the tent where the cloner is. it's aiming at the floor, edge of machine. At 18hrs I had the temps down to 68.5, which was a eureka moment. I put a second thermostat on the blower to be sure that the temps stay below 75. It's been 2 full days and I am already getting roots coming from the clones that have been in there, but unable to root due to the water temp. I have a humidistat / thermostat that I have in place for the cloning room. When it gets cold, the heater turns on and maintains that temp, humidity at 60%, turns on a humidifier when it drops below. During the summer I will need totally different equipment. AC's for the room, dehumidifier and the tank temp seems to be ok in the summer, but this method will work if needed. Kind of has me thinking about using a small aeroponic cloner to start them off with just a air pump and bubbles, then move to the big cloner once roots show. I doubt that I will do that, but I might give it a try. Amazon, you can return 30 daze after purchase, so if I don't get better results I can return it. Prolly get the small one as I just want to start to see roots, that's about the right size.

    The first clones to root were the missing link and hell breath. They are gonna explode soon. Should be ready fairly quick. I am able to get roots from some strains in 4 days with optimal conditions. (HSO's Blue Dream Haze is a quick and easy clone to make) I think that the addition of chloramine to the tank has solved the problems safer and more complete than h2o2, but that's for cleaning the machine once a month. Eats anything dirty. I am very happy to have the cloning situation under control and to have come out of it having learned a ton, is gonna be a huge help in the future.
     
  11. Michael Townshend

    Michael Townshend Member

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    The issue with the cloning machine has been taking up a lot of time. I've had some clones in there for a month and nothing but nubs and swelled up stems. So I started to monitor temps. Turns out the slime was definitely caused by the reservoir temp. So I needed to get that down.

    Since I had developed slime on some clones and it was coming to the rest, I removed everything with the bacteria and cut some clone stems past any soft areas of the stem, or tossed them out. Changed the water, instead of H2O2 (which I use to clean the machine between uses and expect that to sit next to my SM-90, one of those things that are just required to be there.

    I found a thread on another community forum that answered all my questions and dealt with all the problems in one thread. I learned a ton about cloning off this thread and linked info. https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/anyone-using-turbo-klone.12621

    A couple big takeaways from that thread are:

    1. To control the slime and any other bacteria, you can use chloramine, which is a form of chlorine that will stay in the water unline chlorine which will disapate in 24 hours. I am sure that the reason I have had these problems crop up is because the switch to organic started with a R/O filter and started using that as opposed to bottled water. I can't do it with the high PPM of our water, but if you have municipal water at under 300PPM, you can use it in the cloner, will actually help the process. The bottled water seemed to have a lot that was removed with the filter, prolly heavy metals, I am sure that someone here can say exactly what I was lacking by moving to RO water. Thought it was a good thing and it's necessary to feed plants an organic diet without RO water unless you are using well water without chloorine. RO water is good because it removes some harmful chemicals from water, but also removes all the minerals in there too. They give the water it's taste, RO water has no taste.
    EX Clone makes one of the only chloramine containing products concentrated for a cloning machine, Clear Rez. You can buy pool shock cheap and use that, I will put links to both below, but you want to read the thread link above to learn more about how this works with plants and some precautions:
    From Amazon, Clear Rez:
    https://www.amazon.com/EZ-CLONE-Cle...UTF8&qid=1487746716&sr=8-1&keywords=clear+rez

    The specific pool shock that I will be pasting directions on how to make a concentrate that can be stored (in your empty clear rez bottles, lol) is here, there are certain chemicals you do not want in there, so either drop the 10 bucks on this to get 1000g+ concentrate or find your own using the info in the thread linked above.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004DEOPFU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Directions to make concentrate:
    "...Get a 1lb bag of 65% chlorine pool shock from your local pool supply company -> Link above
    Mix the pool shock at a rate of 1 gram to 1 gal RO or tap water. This will make your concentration. Use 1 oz/15ml of your concentrate per 5 gallons of plain water in your reservoir. If you do this, I'll bet it dramatically increases your cloning success. Be sure you buy the pool shock that is 100% calcium hypochlorite (65% available chlorine) granular and not the non chlorine pool shock stuff..."

    *So, this will be 1oz per 5g of water, you can change that to whatever you want with a little algebra. Mine is 4g, so I will figure out the weight I need to maintain 1oz per 4g of water for example.


    The poster of the above info said that clonex rooting solution is not needed with chloramine, seems to indicate that the self made concentrate is as good or better than clear rez. All I can say is it works. I've read threads where people go as far as treating the system with erythromycin (the anitbiotic)
    to get rid of slime. I may have to do that, but not today and I would do whatever it takes to avoid that, a bit too much I think, bleach works too and it's not selective.

    "...Yes you should use it (Clear Rez) and at full strength! (I assume the max rate recommended) And when your buddy stops supplying it to you for free you should make your own how I described above. Ditch the clonex it's not needed. Plain water is sufficient.

    As for using chlorine, I mostly grow organic in soil myself. When I water in organics I de chlorinate my water through a kdf 85 tallboy filter so that I don't kill any beneficials. Cloning is different. The turbo klone rez is a perfect environment for pathogens to build over time. That is why you're having these problems. Once you get rooted clones into dirt and start using organics then chlorine is the enemy. But when using an aero cloner, a wee bit of chlorine is your friend...."




    Since looking into that, seemed clear a thorough cleaning and culling of the clones was in order and done. Some clones had a soft tip and I cut it off, put it back (they are so close to rooting). Put all new collars and soak in bleach the old ones. I have a few sets I keep in rotation. Some soak, some are available when I take a clone others are in the machine, takes a lot as anyone with a machine knows.

    So, since then it's been 5 daze, wanted to be sure that I posted given some time and everything appears as healthy as can be. All clones I took after the culling look like the day I took them except swollen at the tip ready to root. Others that survived the culling are gonna be putting out roots soon if they haven't. It's nice to see that shine from fresh roots coming out of the cuttings. First cutting to show a root was Missing Link #3 ;)

    Hope to report positive about their progress next. All the cuttings from the Mycotek batch were in there, so I lost some. There's only 1 plant that I won't get clones from, the rest I will. Will figure out what to do later, it's just got nothing to give for cuttings and too far along. Not too bad, considering it could have been a big problem that had a lot of phenos rooting flowering clones and waiting months for them. I like the one or two that I haven't flowered yet. It will have clones b4 I flower those and the 30 or so I have from about 10 strains, lol.

    I was planning on using the space to get some Slush Puppy going, but was sent the Thank You Jerry by accident, not quite sure to do about that, Prof, what would you want of those 2? Considering all the 3 chems I have with (Missing Link, Hell Breath and Hell Monkey), wouldn't the Slush Puppy be a bit of a departure as opposed to the thank you jerry? Seem I would be getting something close to what I currently have aside the mother you used, which both use it seems...Slush Puppy is new, right?
     
  12. Michael Townshend

    Michael Townshend Member

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    Missing Link#1 at Day 47:

    ML#1 47.jpg ML#1 47-2.jpg
    Missing Link #5 at 33 Days. Haven't removed all the lower branches just to take clones if needed
    ML#5 33.jpg
    Since this pic I have trimmed all the lower branches and cleaned it up for a late 3 week trim.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
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  13. Michael Townshend

    Michael Townshend Member

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    Seems that the fastest to root are the Missing Link as long as it's a good cut they root fast. Been having more issues with the Hell Breath clones, but I am not ready to say it's the genetic, rather the cloner. May be slightly more finicky than the ML so I am getting more that wilt after 12hrs.

    Put the next round in the oven the past week...
    Seedlings.JPG
    2-3 of each was all I started...
    - Greenpoint - Gunslinger - The $6500 Clone from Obs. I believe this is an F2 of the Starfighter he bought. He released a series called the Wild West where he used the starfighter as a male for a number of new strains. Since he's sold out and moved to something new. I managed to get 7 of them, but I want to try this expensive clone first, lol.
    - In-House - Do si Pie - Do Si Doh x Velvet Pie F2
    - Obsoul33T - FPOG x Cherry Alien Dog - Question, the pack was supposed to be 6 fem. seeds, $155 I think. What I got was 11 with the pack printed with FPOG x Aliendog, the only marking that differentiates it from the Cherry Pheno is a red stamp (from a rubber stamp, prolly wash off) that says FEM on the front. I wrote SHN about it (I am sure they will get a full explanation, not that I will hear it tho), but I was curious if anyone has had any similar issues with their orders from Obs? This sold out in a few hours, the link was dead within a few days, which is unusual, they are usually permanent comparing other older links. As soon as the Cherry sold out he dropped the regular FPOG x aliendog. I know he's got one hell of a rep, but was just curious if all these new strains hes putting out are all as solid as his past work. I saw he has an Apricot cross now, anyone tried that or had any issues with Obs stock?
    - Bruce Banner #2 - Bruce Banner #3 X Bruce Banner 1.0 -> Strawberry Diesel F3 x Bruce Banner #3
    - Lambdo from TH Seeds -> Jamaican Haze X Jamaican Purple X Super Afghan (50-55 days supposedly)
    - and Star Gazer from Dragon Flame Genetics (Freebies) -> malawi landrace pheno x bangi haze (Was looking for just a good malawi strain, but this turned up, so figured what's the harm in one long flowering plant?) Gives me a chance to check them out too, never used them. Obtained from Neptune, who sends freebies a lot, probably have more free strains than I bought, very generous and a delight to do business with. One of only a few sites that I buy from now.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
  14. Michael Townshend

    Michael Townshend Member

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    Males moved to a more portable tent with a T5, so I am hoping this will be used to dry when not used. With all the gear, sure makes them versatile. I will be posting pics regularly now that all the text aspect is done and the rest is up to the genetics. They are all staggered 1-3 each time I put some to flower, With the cloning issues I have been focusing on getting cuttings rooted from whatever is in flower first. Which seems to be done.

    Still one male, the Hell Breath, no missing link males. 1 of the 2 Joystick from Bodhi I planted at the same time came up male, the Qleaner seem to be both females. From many growers viewpoint this would be a good thing, but I just want one male ML out of the 10 plants, 4 left to find one, 3 being slow growing mutants (Worth pollinating a fast growing, stretchy almost no branching, male structured pheno with maybe?, or just to see what it turns out like would be interesting experiment...), basically it's down to the last ML to turn male when I flower, otherwise I'll be crossing it with the hell breath and a mutant or maybe some other Mycotek strain...? I do have a slew of them, missed that window a while ago, unfortunately.
    I am sure the Prof put fem seeds in there so we would need the cubed GG later, lol. Just kidding, surely that's an excuse.

    The Pics of ML#1 are prolly the best candidate. I numbered them based on their height at 1 week (I swapped tags at 1 week, yup), seems #1-6 went into flower in that order.

    Interesting trip to the grow store today. The owner started unpacking all these organic nutes (dry and wet) when I came in. So I asked about it cause most of his store is full of chemical nutes, which I haven't purchased in some time, his reply was that after talking to me (we talk regularly when I am in there to pick his brain), he thinks that it's a good move to devote part of the store to just organic and learn about it more as he goes (young guy). He passed to me three boxes of the Roots organics player pack, ask of I would use that in my next soil batch alone, which I already do (along with additional nutes and increased levels of some other, so I will have to make 40g of new soil, but am also interested to see how their feeding program works and what the soil tests when the plants are done. Along with that I got a slew of other organic products to try out and let him know about, the roots organic liquid line of nutes, which is great as a quick fix or to fix and deficiencies in the soil. Seems he's been picking my brain each visit and learning something, which I think is awesome as there must be a lower profit margin for the organic stuff, most of it at least. Since there's no shipping to deal with, I will be buying from him whenever I need something now that he's stocking it, asked me to call if I can think of anything I might need or that he might want to stock and he would have it in 2 daze, lol. Went in needing CO2 and some Roots Elemental and left with bunch of bags and boxes as well as a ton of extra elemental free (I need it for the cal/mag, since moving to organic I'm afraid of using all the liquid ones and have noticed deficiencies crop up randomly on certain varieties), but Elemental seems to have a similar effects as large doses of silica, Reduces stem hollowing, which strengthens them. If enough is used in an organic garden with HID, there are only a few buds that may need support towards the end to keep trained on the light. LED's seem to be harder to get the stem so strong near the base, where the light is weakest, so silica seems to be rather dependant on light level, it seems (unless it's harder for the plants to metabolize silica in a hydro reservoir), definitely much more important that most growers tend to give it other than adding at water time, but checking how it's working is another story, many new growers are talked into silica from the get go and when they run out it's one of the first to not get replaced, from what I understand. So, until you stop and restart a few weeks later or improve your source of silica, most growers have no clue if a plant needs more or less, no baseline. Stopping tends to be a slow process of the stems getting weaker and weaker over time and may not be immediately recognized as being from a lack of silica, especially if it was given silica for any length of time before stopping. Point was that the Elemental is advertized as a cal/mag amendment, but it's much more than that, particularly the quality of silica used as that's when I started to notice it's effect and importance.
    ok, enough on silica, sorry I got on another tangent...
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
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  15. Michael Townshend

    Michael Townshend Member

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    HB#2 @ 6 Days
    HB#2 @ 6.jpg
    HB#4 @ 24 Days
    HB#4 @ 24.jpg
    HB#5 @ 6 Days
    HB#5 @ 6.jpg
    HB#6 @ 33 days
    HB#6 33.jpg
    Here is everything flowering. it's tight the past 6 days, but I have 2 large ones that are flushing and are supposed to get removed tomorrow and goto dark tent for 48 hrs, will be next few days for sure.
    Whole Garden 2.jpg
    The one in the back middle is the Missing Link that's furthest along.


    Now that I have the image uploader figured out it will go back and update the images above or repost if necessary.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
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  16. Michael Townshend

    Michael Townshend Member

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    Here's just some bud porn, macro shots from a Strawberry Cheese Cake. I'll get the same for the ML and HB as the finish:

    SCC Macros -1.jpg SCC Macros -2.jpg SCC Macros -3.jpg SCC Macros -4.jpg SCC Macros -5.jpg SCC Macros -6.jpg SCC Macros -7.jpg SCC Macros -8.jpg
     
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  17. Michael Townshend

    Michael Townshend Member

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    This is what the 3 phenos that are growing slow started as, 3 tops and every top split into 2-3. This is the fastest of the 3, I haven't posted a pic of this one, but i was taken a while ago, 3 weeks into veg.

    3 Heaed Start.jpg

    Since I pruned the excess off a couple weeks ago the both started to develop some dominant branches and some structure, tho still full of foliage IMG_1261 (2).JPG IMG_1267 (2).JPG 3 Heaed Start.jpg .

    I think I'm up to date with pics of everything to date but a few still in veg. They will get added as they make it to flower.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
  18. Michael Townshend

    Michael Townshend Member

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    I can say that all but those 2 mutants out grew the Joystick from Bodhi and Qleaner by 2x in veg They are clearly stronger and vigorous. Not sure if you noticed that some point vertical toward the light they seem to want more and more. I haven't been able to over fertilize any to the point of root tip burn, using 2x bloom booster and high PPM seemed to just make them even more vigorous. Every week I do a foliar spray of a tea with about half Insect Frass. Within 15 mins of application on any plant and they go vertical like some are showing at the tops, but the whole plant, I'll try to get a good pic of that, it's pretty cool to see such vigor from these. Tho most is the ML and HB, there are 6 other strains in there and both have out performed them all. A pleasure to grow and i think the hardest part is over, other than the clone stock, which looks great.

    Again, the point of this was not only to show the strains, but to get some input whenever there is something that I may be doing screwed up or right. Since I am constantly tweaking things, knowing that I have some aspect under control and can spend my time on other things that can be tweaked sure would be nice.

    I have been toying with negative DIM without actually having the temps so high at night. I found a commercially used temp. pattern that they use on similar growing plants. Results in the modification of the levels of Gibberellic Acid, Auxins and other stuff I don't understand, but supposed to be good. Theory of having a night temp slightly above day temp is so that flower development continues and stem elongation is reduced, so it's just a temp. setting that you return to normal after stretch. I think that with this, the mechanism is in the temp manipulation at night being only .1 degree F higher in the morning, but doing a air exchange just before light comes on and cooling the tent quickly for an hour. Something that I can't hurt the plants with at least, lol. Maybe I can slow the stretching of the Hell Breath and ML. There are about 10 stages of temp change, I haven't taken the time to program the thermostat yet.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
  19. Michael Townshend

    Michael Townshend Member

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    Well, I was fooled. Keeping a number of strains around, I have developed a way to visually sort them assigning each strain a color. Seems I made a mistake as I was dressing the op of a neighbor I put the tag in the ML@6 pot, never put it back. So I have been expecting totally different results, but it slipped by me for a week or two. I pulled this last week and put it in a dark tent, that's when I knew it wasn't what I thought, the smell immediately filled the basement. The filter in the flower tent must really be working, but as soon as it lost that I had to hastily put together a 4" carbon filter and a Y to exhaust outside. That solved the drying issue completely, can even keep a fan going at med.

    Today was the first day that I took it down for it's first sweat and took some pics. This is no joke folks, I'm sure anyone who has grown this understands exactly. The purity of all the chems are an immediate reaction when you first smoke it. I've never had any chem as pure as these, makes me want to toss any other chem strains I have, seriously. Can't imagine the cubed version, but I will be there trying to get a pack. There wasn't a lot of color in the pics of the flowers when it was wet, but it was definitely purple to the core. I drop the temps to 60 2 hrs each morning to try to coax and purple I can and it's resulted in some very interesting lavender colored flowers, but nothing with the range as this. light orange to dark, all shades of purple in the flowers and leaf. Almost makes you wonder if your looking at a cookie cross, but that fades fast as the wind shifts.

    This was ML#6, I numbered them by height and vigor after a couple weeks, so #6 was in the middle of the pack, not something I put to flower at first. Only took 8 weeks to get to this stage, I would have let it go a bit longer knowing it was the ML, but I know the variety that I thought it was and very well, it was ready... So After I got it isolated in the dark I checked on it daily to make sure it didn't start another flower spurt, never did. It's clearly gonna be a quick finisher, but I can see there's better phenos. Trimmed very little, I noticed with these crystally strains that it's best to leave the leaves on it a while to protect the goods. When it dries I cut them off. Expectantly, a lot of leaves stuck to the bud and were not worth the effort of tearing them apart that I left it, they are coming off easier, but one got a dose of some THC, clearly those leaves had some squashing between them, so a lot I left on like that. I dropped the Cuttings I got off them into a batch of Dark Star Kush, which seems to have similar tastes, but clearly not the same lineage, thought it would be a good way to start working with the ML as BHO, each strain is different, so this should show that very well, use a 2 foot vacuum pressurized tube that takes 2 cans, so half is ML, any other I get I will save to do a pure run. I freeze everything to -8F for a couple days after packing then run the tane which goes in the freezer as I buy it. I've been getting returns in the low 20's was hoping to see an increase with these 2 strains. Prolly both are the best I have grown to date, those genetics weren't around when I was hard core in the mid 80's thru mid 90's. To get seeds I had to fly to Amsterdam after the cannabis cup (before you couldn't buy any new strains, had to wait til the cup, which set the prices). The last year I went Super Silver Haze won for the first time (that was the first strain my wife and I smoked, we arrived early, like 8AM, so had to wait a couple hours, so we went to the GHS bar near the hotel. Bought the most expensive they had, started rolling and got the usual "Americans" from rolling it without tobacco. That SSH, man it was dangerous to everyone for me to walk back to the hotel, I never have been so out of control of myself, bikes zipping by, I could have just knocked into one, but never did, the wife helped I think. That GHS was where the Owner of all 3 at the time liked to work, so we visited daily trying to secure some SSH seeds . I could not get him to sell, but as soon as it won, it was the standard 500 buck US for 10, which I had offered, he just could not let the gentics go before the cup. Never came home with tons of seeds, worked out to travel ever year or 2. Always something going on in Amsterdam, will be my favorite European destination for life. I recall that year Feminized seeds started to hit the market. Dinafem was the most prolific, so I got a pack of blueberry fem seeds for like 120 bucks. Aside that pack of SSH, I rarely dumped that much on 2 stains per visit and I was sitting on a lot of new stuff given to me, so the SSH was a perfect addition with a couple plants per harvest. When I sold it, sure made a ton of money, back then weed was 2x what it is now where I lived. Haven't been able to get that variety since then, Should have paid more attention to the clones and never let them run out. The worse experience were 4 SSH from GHS themselves, 2 were male the other 2 turned out to be 20 week phenos that at only 12 could we tell and cut, what a waste. Never had any 20 week phenos in the original pack from the mid 90's, I am sure that that strain has been diluted so many time I was just fortunate to get it when it was at it's best.

    Here's some pics of this first Missing Link (my #6):
    ML#6 macro -1.jpg ML#6 macro -2.jpg ML#6 macro -3.jpg ML#6 wet -1.jpg ML#6 Wet -4.jpg Some macro shots taken just before the first jarring. The last 2 are a few days after it had been sitting in the dark and I did the first trim and hanged. Took another 5 days to get them to the jar for the first time, which I prefer the longer the better.

    I know I have some dry nug shots and more wet ones I'll post them lastly:

    ML wet early -2.JPG ML#6 - wet early -4.JPG ML#6 wet early -3.JPG
    ML#6 -1.JPG ML#6 -2.JPG

    Definately not gonna be the best one, but it's a hell of a start, has my expectations set very high.
     
  20. Michael Townshend

    Michael Townshend Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2016
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    Male
    The first pheno finished 2 weeks early. Was #6, right in the middle of the pack as far as height and vigor when I numbered them as seedlings as I transplanted.
    Shots wet just b4 hanging for a week.
    ML#6 wet -1.jpg ML#6 Wet -4.jpg

    Macros taken just before they went in the jar for the first time
    ML#6 macro -1.jpg ML#6 macro -2.jpg ML#6 macro -3.jpg

    Nugs b4 cure:
    ML#6 -1.JPG ML#6 -2.JPG


    It would be nice to show all the purple and other colors in the buds, but I must need a different wavelength on my flash. Just lights it up.

    They were pretty well dried, the humidity hasn't moved much since I sealed them in the jar, prolly start to burp it tomorrow morning when it's sky hi, lol

    Description, This is some dank stinky stuff. The chems are all very detectable in there and easily the best of any that I have had, then again I have only had it in quantity years ago, nothing recent, nothing this close to the mother. great bag appeal, needed to add a charcoal filter to the dry room cause the stank made it throughout the house within a few minutes of it leaving the flower tent. lol. A first.

    Since it was so early I look at it as what to expect fully matured and that will be something to hold onto. Works great on my migraines, definitely will stay in rotation just for that. Not to mention the clearly elite genetics, lol.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017